Students Speak Out: Minnesota
Bullying--Why Do We Care?
I am struck by the discussion--'is bullying normal" and by some of the videos. Okay, so bullying takes place. We can talk about what we think should be done. But it'll be a better solution, I believe, if we understand the nature of the harm being done by bullying.
How does bullying affect learning in school? Does it have an impact on the overall school environment, or just those who are bullied or doing the bullyiing?
Michael Atherton has asked, "Why the focus on teachers?" Obviously, most students think it's important. But why? Is it because you think teachers are in a position to make a difference or have an obligation to make a difference? Is it because when authority figures allow bullying to persist, it sets a standard for what types of behavior are permissable, and students want a higher standard? Is it because allowing bullying to persist suggests to you that teachers don't care about you, and this in turn makes makes it harder to be motivated to learn?
Why do YOU care?
How does bullying affect learning in school? Does it have an impact on the overall school environment, or just those who are bullied or doing the bullyiing?
Michael Atherton has asked, "Why the focus on teachers?" Obviously, most students think it's important. But why? Is it because you think teachers are in a position to make a difference or have an obligation to make a difference? Is it because when authority figures allow bullying to persist, it sets a standard for what types of behavior are permissable, and students want a higher standard? Is it because allowing bullying to persist suggests to you that teachers don't care about you, and this in turn makes makes it harder to be motivated to learn?
Why do YOU care?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Michael Atherton on
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Stacy wrote: "Michael Atherton has asked, "Why the focus on teachers?" Obviously, most students think it's important. "
Do they? That's not the impression that I got from most of the videos and student posts. To me it seemed that people were saying, "Yea, bullying is bad, but it's just part of school and living through it will make you stronger." I didn't really hear that many students say, "Bullying is really hurtful and we should do everything we can to make sure it doesn't occur."
Maybe most of the aghast about bullying is coming from adults?
So, do you REALLY care?
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Permalink Reply by Nora on -
I think it's because teachers are often unaware that bullying is going on and by getting them involved in the process of reducing bullying it is making them more aware of it. I also think that it is important that a teacher not tolerate bullying in his/her classroom because kids are smart and they know what classes they can and cannot bully in. A lot of times teachers can't figure out what is teasing and what is bullying. If a kid is bullied they are less likely t o want to go to school, making them less motivated to learn, which should not happen.
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I agree that this is an important part of addressing bullying, but not the most important one. As you've pointed, out classrooms account for only a small part of bullying.
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Permalink Reply by Brett on -
If we are just working on ending bullying within the schools, not all together, teachers would be very important. That seems to be the opinion the commentators have. Why do you think that teacher contribution should be small or that it is minor compared to . . . ? If I could take a guess at where your going with this, it would be a big picture thing. Looking much larger than the schools. Am I close?
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For teachers to have an important role the following must apply:
1) Teachers must be unbiased and fair (I don't think this is always true).
2) Teachers must be motivated and committed to consistently applying no tolerance rules (I don't think this will be the case).
3) Administrators must be willing to back teachers up and discipline students consistently (I don't think this generally occurs).
Even if all the above were in effect, the impact of teachers would be small because:
1) Teachers observe bullying only sporadically, often because bullying usually occurs intentionally when teachers are not looking. In fact, it's often the person who is bullied who is singled out, because it's their response, not the initial act that is observed by the teacher.
2) Bullying often occurs in periods when teachers are not present: breaks between classes; in restrooms; before and afterschool; summer time; etc.
It's my opinion that the commentators emphasized teachers' roles because:
1) They are use to authority being applied from above.
2) Most students don't care whether other students are bullied or gain vicarious enjoyment in watching them being bullied.
3) Almost all students don't realize that the primary responsibility for controlling bullying lies with them, not others!
It is both a big picture thing and a very personal one: ethical behavior and responsibility is individual, not global. It's all about what you do, not what someone else does.
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Permalink Reply by Brett on
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If you can trust your teacher to be there for you and do the right thing when you are having an issue with someone bullying, then that teacher becomes important to the mix. I don't think we can change all students’ ethical behaviors at school all together. Especially right away, but with teachers being there for their students instead of turning the other cheek, showing that someone cares is definitely a strong step forward for those victimized.
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*If* you can trust your teacher?! Why do you assume that this is a role for teachers? It never was in my day. In primary and middle school it was simply not part of the role of teachers: they taught and disiplined. In high school teachers were part of the establishment and could not be trusted. Why do you expect to be able to trust teachers these days? Do you know that teachers are legally required to report abuse? They cannot legally promise to keep what you tell them private.
Hmmm... you don't think we can change all student's ethical behaviors? :-) Maybe not, but in this country which was founded on the concepts of freedom and rights, shouldn't we be teaching students their civic and moral responsiblites?
It never ceases to amazme me that the phrase, "I may not agree with what you say, but I will fight for your right to say it," has almost disappeared from public education in the span of fourty years. Why is this? I have an answer, but what's your guess?
I was trying to suggest to you that ethical behavior does not have to be universal, sometimes it only take a few people to move many to act. Regardless, sometimes things just need to be said even if they are not heard (does that make sense?). I strongly encourage everyone in this group to watch: "Sophie Scholl: The Final Days" and "Bonhoeffer." There really isn't much difference between high school bullying and the Nazi bullying in the 1930s. The dynamics are pretty much the same.
What have you seen happen when someone observes bullying and speaks up?
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Permalink Reply by Nora on
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Michael, I noticed that you said, "the role of teachers: they taught and disciplined." That is one of the reasons why it is a good idea to get teachers involved in dealing with bullying because kids who bully show a lack of discipline. When teachers let bullying go they are not doing their job of disciplining those kids and it then interferes with their teaching of the rest of the kids.
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It seemed to me that there was a differentiation being made between teachers as friends and teachers as disciplinarians. No? Regardless, the point I was trying to make was that even if teachers take on this role it will only have a small impact and that students themselves can have a much larger impact.
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Permalink Reply by Brett on
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Maybe that is one of largest differences of times, and how we can work to end bullying is to involve the teachers in a different way than previously initiated. I shouldn't have to face the crap that bullying brings my way myself, or expect only my peers to step up for me. There should be something coming from the authority figures as well. Students should be making efforts for each other and acting as the main contribution against bullying, and Avalon works really hard with that theory so we don't have to face things ourselves. Also our teachers take it in their hands if need be. Thus, we have minimal bullying issues.
It isn't about trusting them not to say anything; it is about what they do with that information. If the situation is not handled appropriately, then obviously you are not going to trust that teacher and we should be changing the process for handling bullying because it is not effective in the most productive way possible.
I want to say we can change it all! I wish we could, but I think right now it is about developing the system, because once we have a good system in place it becomes a lot easier to make changes to the students causing harm. The damage has been done; we need to have ways as soon as possible to deal with that because it should be addressed, and changing students ethical ways takes time. Changing their ethics is preventative for the future not repairing the past or even fixing the present quickly.
I am not sure what you mean by "I may not agree with what you say, but I will fight for your right to say it," part of your post.
Be the change you want to see. By saying something to the bullies maybe your actions are living that statement . . . I just think that leaving it completely up to the kids at school, can cause more distraction from learning and have minimal effects if not pared up with administration interference.
Isn’t it interesting how dynamics of small problems at school are the same as large scale problems we deal with often times?
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Permalink Reply by Brett on
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I think they can be both . . . we just need back up as students from administration through the system, and the teachers in the classroom. It explains more in my post above. =)
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Permalink Reply by Carolyn Avaire on
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This question "What have you seen happen when someone observes bullying and speaks up?" is crucial. We need to talk about this.
If you don't mind I think a new discussion thread should be started with that topic.
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