Was it okay to strip search a 13 year old girl at school?

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Permalink Reply by george mayer on June 19, 2009 at 12:50pm

Well brett a couple things. First I absolutely agree that it is possible for everyone to decide for themselves, but it is not a realistic goal for everybody. There will be students that have trouble doing what you did. What we need to figure out is how to keep those students who are on the fence off drugs, and telling someone on the fence to have self respect is not the answer.

Secondly could you expand a little bit on your final point about "cool," I'm a little confused

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Permalink Reply by Nora on June 19, 2009 at 1:09pm

I'm of pretty much the same mindset as Brett when it comes to that sort of thing. Unfortunately there are a lot of kids who are not comfortable enough with who they are to think the same way. As Brett put it, the kids who "want so bad to have friends."
It's common for teenagers, especially girls, to feel like they have to be something they are not for people to like them. So, is what we need to target the issue of using itself or the issue of insecurity?

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Permalink Reply by Brett on June 21, 2009 at 9:50pm

I can only speak to what I have seen work, and the self respect approach combined with the health class I had, did a pretty decent job. Good parenting always helps too, but that is a whole other conversation!

We know "generally" what does not work (DARE, scare tactics, other approaches mentioned), and some of what has. Replacing unsuccessful programs with good ones (that we like) is a nice first step. I can't say I have the answer for all those students, because I do not know the specific situation. Each of us will go through a time where we are stuck on the fence, for individual reasons. When someone or something reaches out to you (whichever side that may be), my guess is you fall to that side.

I don't think anyone mentioned the approach of over scheduling, demanding hard work, and having super high expectations of our kids. Think of the stereotypical soccer mom, who has a couple of kids, all participating in numerous activities keeping them busy at every second of each day. Not to mention the school load, with the spelling bee to study for next week! Some parents don't leave any time for their kids to get wrapped up in drugs. Is it the best idea? There is some skepticism surrounding this direction, but can it keep kids out of drugs?

My point about "cool” was a bad attempt at explaining how a kid will do something because they think its "cool". Your parents might say, "Don't do something because all the other kids are doing it, or because they say it is the "cool" thing to do." The standard response is to blow it off, because we do not understand how that situation applies to our life. Most kids do not realize when your parents warn you about that, it is because you see that situation every day, just said differently by your peers.
Is that a little better, because sometimes I get scatter brained in the summer with all the sunshine. Lolz

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Permalink Reply by Nora on June 22, 2009 at 10:54pm

The whole keeping the kids busy thing might work for some kids but it can also have the opposite effect. Some kids feel like they have so much to do that they turn to stimulant drugs in order to keep them going for longer. But that does bring up the issue of kids who turn to drugs because they are bored. Is there anything we can do to discourage/prevent that?

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Permalink Reply by george mayer on June 26, 2009 at 3:06pm

First, back to original thread to nora started, "Was it okay to strip search a 13 year old girl at school?" The answer was an overwhelming no from the supreme court a couple days ago.

What you two are talking about is different than what I'm talking about. You two are giving remedies controlled only by the student: "stay busy," "be confident" etc.. What I'm more concerned about is a class or programs, and the specifics of that class or program that would be successful in lowering drug use.

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Permalink Reply by Nora on June 27, 2009 at 9:17pm

I think that in order to find a program that works, you need to first focus on the students and why they use in the first place, then figure out what needs to be done to prevent that. At this point we have come up with some of those reasons as well as what doesn't work program-wise. Now we need to put those two together.
I don't know if anyone mentioned this, but I think that some of the problem is that a lot of people don't know exactly what they are getting themselves into when they use. What about a program that focuses on information and such. Do you think that that would be effective, or is there a better way to do it?

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Permalink Reply by george mayer on June 28, 2009 at 2:46pm

It sounds like your talking about a program that would focus on informing kids of the consequences of drugs. Let me know if i'm wrong. I'm not sure how well that would work. It's difficult for anyone to really consider consequences when it comes to things with such strong immediate gratification appeal. This is evident in America's extreme indulgence in smoking, drinking and even eating things like fast food. They're all bad for you AND people know that they're really bad, but they still do them.

I think high school students have been told plenty of the consequences of drugs. I think brett made an interesting point about being "cool." People use because they think it's cool. In fact, being cool is probably the strongest motivating force in high school.

So my program idea is this: change the paradigm of cool. It's not cool to use, but people think it is. I would like to demonstrate to students that drugs are not cool. This attitude is present in some students. Im my high school athletes really frowned upon drugs. Now I certainly don't want everyone to be like the athletes in my school--not by a long shot--but if that attitude was replicated in other students, I think there would be a serious decrease in drug use.

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Permalink Reply by Nora on June 28, 2009 at 10:00pm

The idea of making drugs seem uncool is a good idea. How do you think that schools should go about doing that?
Also, do you think that if things like Marijuana were legal that teens would use them less?

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Permalink Reply by george mayer on July 7, 2009 at 2:27pm

that's what people say, isn't it? that legalization would reduce teen use. Here's a good point:

“A regulated, legal market in marijuana would reduce marijuana sales and use among teenagers, as well as reduce their exposure to other drugs in the illegal market. The illegality of marijuana makes it more valuable than if it were legal, providing opportunities for teenagers to make easy money selling it to their friends. If the excessive profits for marijuana sales were ended through legalization there would be less incentive for teens to sell it to one another.” from here. Sorta what you're saying. That is an interesting direction to go though.

How would legalization affect teens? I think use would not go down that much. But there would be fewer dealers, and probably safer weed.

As for your first question. I think the only promotional efforts that would be effective would be a student group of (relatively) popular students. I'm not sure what this student group would do yet, but I am pretty sure that any attempt at this that is clearly run by adults would probably not work.

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Permalink Reply by Nora on July 7, 2009 at 8:52pm

I think that Marijuana sales would go up before they went down following a legalization of the drug.
For some people, the appeal of Marijuana, and most other drugs, is the feel of rebellion that comes with doing something illegal. If it was legal, it would not be so rebellious and would lose some of it's appeal. Although, I'm not sure how accurate that theory is when it comes to Marijuana because it was legal in the hippie days and people used it all the time.
I am aware that there are many downsides to the "legalize it all" approach, but there would also be some benefits to society. When we did the drug unit in health class one of the sad and very disturbing things was when we had some former drug addicts who were in a rehab program come in and talk to us. One of them had ODed on something and pretty much been left for dead by the friends she was with because what they were doing was illegal. Unfortunately that is not a rare occurrence. If everything was legal, situations like that could be avoided because there would be no fear of getting into legal trouble.

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Permalink Reply by george mayer on July 15, 2009 at 3:08pm

Well I have a couple of thoughts on this that are closer to criticism than constructive criticism (sorry!).

First, I'd rather steer the conversation in a direction that SSO could realistically approach. While students opinions are extremely valuable, our lobbying power on whether or not to legalize drugs is probably quite minimal.

Second, that is a very good example (and sad story) to discourage students from drug use and It could have been avoided if whatever drug he took was legal. However, our country and society is a long way from legalizing ANY drug, much less legalizing a drug that one could OD on--something moderately serious. One cannot OD on weed. And the benefit you listed for a "legalize all" is serious one, but I personally would be hard pressed to vote to legalize cocaine and heroine.

Anyway, I want to go back to the strategy of a drug prevention program. My school also brought in a recovering addict, but he was not so convincing. He spent the majority of his time discussing how great the euphoria was every time he got high, and spent a short time then saying "but it wasnt worth it." I hope that most others' experience is not like that.

Let me ask you a question: Do you the weed is a gateway drug?

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