Cheating

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Nora on March 16, 2009 at 6:48pm

I think that part of the reason so many students cheat is because there is such an emphasis on grades in school. There seems to be an idea that if you don't get the right grades you won't get into the right schools and consequently will not get a good job and you're life will be an overall failure. Now that is a little exaggerated but there is definitely a lot of pressure to get the right grades.
It is also hard because I think there are some teachers that are aware that cheating is going on but that they just do not catch it. If they confront someone about cheating they know that the person is not going to confess to it, so that leaves them with a suspicious view of students.

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Permalink Reply by Annie Wood on March 16, 2009 at 9:59pm

Yeah I totally agree...but how do you target the actual cheaters and prevent it from happening effectively? Because it'd be easy to assume that all students cheat...as this particular teacher did, and is now making EVERYONE re-do the assignment, since she thinks everyone cheated. But is that really going to prevent cheating in the future? For people who actually do cheat on a regular basis, I really think not. But its also not okay for teachers to turn a blind eye and trust everyone...so I don't know! Ahh!

But its weird to me, because it almost seems like as much effort to actually cheat as it is to just do the work.

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Permalink Reply by Kim FB on March 20, 2009 at 10:22am

Annie, so sorry to hear that happened. Sounds familiar, though, so yes this has been going on for some time.

I think Nora raises a good point about the emphasis on grades. I am concerned that the emphasis on achievement and accountability drives things to individual assessment--FOR EVERYTHING!. What if students were ALLOWED to work collaboratively more frequently--like they do here and elsewhere, and as they will do in the working world? They would still be assessed individually sometimes, to make sure that the methods are working well, but there would be more co-learning when it comes to worksheets and projects and papers (if you want)?

With the way technology is today, this seems to me a no brainer. The internet brings AMAZING collaboration potential, with people outside of your school, even. Why don't we show students ways to collaborate that are not cheating???

Just thinking out loud here.

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Permalink Reply by Nora on March 22, 2009 at 5:56pm

I think that more collaborative working would be beneficial to most students. With about 40 kids per class it is very difficult to get help from teachers if you are struggling but it is often the case that other students can help. I've found that if I do not understand something and ask a friend for help, I usually understand it in the end.
People learn in different ways, so sometimes just hearing the same thing explained in a slightly different way can make all the difference. Unfortunately, it is hard to ask someone for help without getting in trouble for talking. When that happens and a student says that they did not understand what was going on, so they asked another person near them, teachers often reply "if you don't understand something you can ask me but there is not reason for you to be talking right now."

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Permalink Reply by george mayer on April 18, 2009 at 5:40pm

Cheating is, was, and will always be present, and I think it is because of an emphasis on grade. However, like was said, I think everyone cheats. Do you think students cheat so they don't have to study, or cheat for the grade? Are students still learning while they cheat? Theoretically, if a system was invented that completely erased cheating, would students learn more, or would grades just drop?

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Permalink Reply by Nora on April 19, 2009 at 8:03pm

The motive to cheat depends on the person doing the cheating. There are some people who do not study but still want to get good grades, so they cheat. There are others who can study for days on end and still not memorize all of the math formulas needed for the final, so they cheat. In the end, almost, if not everyone cheats for the grade.
I think whether or not a person learns while cheating depends on how and why a they cheat. If it is a case where students are just checking their answers and one of them realizes that they did the problem wrong, looks at the other student's work, realizes what was done wrong and fixes it, then yes, the student probably learns. If on kid is peering over the shoulder of another because they decided not to study the night before and the kid next to them is smart and never covers their paper, then no, probably not.
What do you think?

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Permalink Reply by george mayer on June 24, 2009 at 5:37pm

I think cheating almost universally leads to learning. At least a little bit. You kind of made the distinction between types of subject. It seems to me almost impossible to cheat on a math test because work is gennerally graded almost more than the correct answers. My teachers wouldn't even give credit if they didnt see work. And for other tests, based on facts, then the cheater at least hears the fact again.

This may be obvious, but it seems to me that cheating is more frowned upon because people are getting grades they dont deserve, not because some students are missing out on learning, is there anything wrong with that?

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Permalink Reply by Nora on June 24, 2009 at 9:15pm

I would agree that the problem people have with cheating is the undeserved grade. I can understand that if a kid has spent time studying and has all their stuff together that they would be a little pissed if another kid who didn't do any preparation got the same grade by cheating.
What I think people should be more worried about is the learning, not the grade. Unfortunately that is not realistic. When you are applying to college and such they don't sit down and have a long conversation with you to see how much you know, they look at your grades and test scores.

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Permalink Reply by george mayer on June 26, 2009 at 3:16pm

Ok, fair enough. We should concentrate on what is realistic, because I think that is a problem in and of itself: people refuse to accept what is real, and try to make something ideal, and by doing that accomplish nothing at all.

So, clarify for me (this may seem really dumb): what is the main problem, from a students perspective, with cheating?

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Permalink Reply by Nora on June 27, 2009 at 9:21pm

I would say that the main problem is that not only does the cheater get a grade that he/she doesn't deserve, but it also makes the teachers very hesitant to trust all of the students. So, those who do not cheat are unfairly distrusted.
I think though that cheating is kind of a gray area for students. On the one hand, it is annoying if a kid that everyone knows cheats is at the top of the class or something, but most kids do cheat at some point in their school career, so it can be hypocritical to throw too many stones.

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Permalink Reply by george mayer on July 7, 2009 at 2:12pm

Right, I think cheating is pretty rampant, and when it comes down to it, the people at the top of the class are not the cheaters, they are the best, and the cheaters hover around the middle, because really cheating can only get you so far.

I think it i up to the teachers to stop cheating and not the students. check this link out. Scroll to the bottom and read the suggestions for teachers about how to stop cheating. I think some of these tips are really good and would be really affective. Do you think a one day training session for teachers could make progress in cheating?

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Permalink Reply by Nora on July 7, 2009 at 8:40pm

Some of those were good suggestions. I did have a problem with a couple of them though. Things like checking for identical wrong answers. If it is a 100 question test and two kids got the exact same score and same 20 questions wrong and happen to sit withing cheating distance of each other, then that would make sense. But if it is a 20 question thing and there are two kids who both got 18 and the same two wrong, then it is a bad idea to accuse them of cheating. When students are accused of cheating unfairly, they generally end up very put off and have a lower view of the teacher. This discussion, for example, was started after Annie was wrongly accused of cheating and was very put off.
I'm not sure if a training session would help because students will find new ways to cheat once their old ways have been done away with.

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