Students Speak Out: Minnesota
Pat Garofalo, Minnesota House Representative for District 36B
This is the ninth in a series of adult commentators discussions.
Click here to see the other discussions.
Pat Garofalo, Minnesota House Representative for District 36B, is a life long resident of the area having grown up in Lakeville, graduating from Rosemount High School in 1989 and Mankato State University in 1994. Pat and his wife Julie live in Farmington with their two young children. Pat is a network engineer with the Allianz Life Insurance Company in Golden Valley.
Pat was first elected to the legislature in 2004, receiving the highest percentage vote of any first time candidate during that election. Some of Pat's top priorities at the legislature are traffic congestion, improving education, and job creation.
Pat has been honored by the newsletter Politics in Minnesota for special recognition as the 2006 Freshman Legislator of the Year.
PAT'S QUESTION FOR THE PANEL:
Hi, I’m Representative Pat Garofalo. Among my duties as a legislator, I serve on three committees related to education finance.
Teachers today are generally paid based on 2 factors. #1 - Their years of service and #2 - The amount of education they have received. Some have suggested moving to a merit pay system, where teachers would have part or all of their compensation based on performance.
What do you think of this idea?
STUDENT RESPONSES TO PAT'S QUESTION:
I think that is a great idea that should have been brought into action a long time ago.
How many people do you know with both the heart and the ability to take on some students who have an attention span of three seconds or less—or the stubbornness of bulls, or tongues like razor blades—everyday and still say that they wouldn’t trade their job for another one, simply because they love what they do?
How many people do you know who bare up under the intense scrutiny of parents, superiors, and each other, but at the end of the day still find a way to leave work with a smile and sense of accomplishment? If that doesn’t take guts, endurance, persistence, love, and commitment then I don’t know what does. It is this very example of loyalty to the future heads of multi-billion dollar companies, empires, countries, and in essence the future known world that makes me want to be a teacher today. Because without teachers, who would educate our future Lords and Ladies of the United Kingdom, and our President and First Lady of the United States?
So I believe they deserve to be paid what they're worth, and more.
I think that the system we currently have working has both positive and negative aspects. If we did move towards a merit pay system how would we judge performance? I know one of my best friends had a teacher who was wonderful, but her class was unmanageable. That teacher quit after becoming fed up with her situation. If she was being judged based on performance of those students she would have looked like a bad teacher. She is now at a different school and running a fabulous class again.
I think if we were to switch to a different system based on performance we would face the same amount of negative aspects as we do now. There will always be those teachers who do not get filtered through, and those who we want and should keep that get the boot. What we have to do is figure out what made most of the Minneapolis schools 6 years ago so much better than they are now. I believe it is the system—which includes how money is distributed and how we are teaching. Resources and funding also play a part. If we restore the schools to the places they used to be then the quality of the teachers should improve because they will be under less stress and not pushed almost literally to their limits.
If we were to switch into a merit pay system and the teachers were judged on performance, we would have to evaluate them with more than the test scores of our students. I think that test scores only show if you are a good test taker more than your knowledge of the content. I have personally stressed out on tests more than I should have, and performed way under my capabilities. We need to evaluate teachers by getting information from parents and students on their opinions. Not just the staff or parents, students too. Many teachers are fabulous under almost any situation you will make them teach in. These teachers can only be located by the students and parents who are directly involved with them everyday. Test scores are not the only important thing we need to be looking at in education, so we can not only judge someone from their students’ scores. We have to see things from a bigger picture if someone is going to be judged that way.
First of all, I definitely don't think the seniority system is fair in the slightest. There are many great new teachers for whom it is nearly impossible to break into teaching because of their lack of seniority. There are also teachers who have been teaching for decades and are not even close to great. It's incredibly unfair that teachers are judged by how long they've been in the system. It doesn't tell how good of a teacher you are. That really shouldn't mean anything.
I wouldn't have a problem with the merits system except for the way that it's determined. If it's by test scores, I am one hundred percent against it. Test scores don't determine anything. Here's an example:
Teacher A, a teacher who has been in the district for twenty years, teaches in an upscale neighborhood where the majority of students are middle- and upper-class. She doesn't have to do much, because these kids strive to do well, and always perform well on tests. She coasts through with worksheets and they still perform in the eighty percentile range. Teacher B is an extraordinary, life changing teacher and mentor who's been teaching for a year. The students love him and he's taught them all so much. As a class, they've all grown and learned more than ever. However, since he teaches in a school that has eighty percent poverty, learning more than ever isn't enough. Although his students grew enormously in the past year, it wasn't enough to raise the school's score to the fbn 9oswifty percentile range. Now, who deserves to get paid more?
A merit system has the potential to be better than seniority, but only if the criteria are fair. Test scores are not a fair way to determine pay. I think it would be a great system if they used a diversity of sources...student feedback about the teacher—students know best how much they learned, how good the teacher is, and how the class functioned—peer evaluation, maybe samples of lesson plans and tests and things like that. Test scores could factor in, but should not be the only deciding factor. I would be for the merits system if it were accurate and effective in evaluating teachers.
I think that this is a good idea. If from merit pay we get teachers who could actually teach and perform well with their students then this is something we should consider. I mean having teachers who get paid based on the years of service and amount of education received doesn’t really show if they know what they are doing. It’s just a fact that before anyone could become great in something or anything, it takes lots of practice and performance to themselves and groups.
I think that performance plays a huge role for teachers because they are the role models for students to learn from. If they truly believe in helping students to excel in their education, shouldn’t we pay them based on the way they are teaching the students? Also, in my opinion I think that what’s most important is for the teachers to teach the students as if they really want to and they’re passionate about what they do. The education that students receive is all based on the knowledge and performance of their teachers. I think this idea will be great for teachers and students because if teachers really want to keep their job, might as well get paid doing something they’re passionate about. It will benefit students who are willing to learn from inspiring teachers too.
You are welcome to get involved in the discussion. Please post your comments below.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Kim FB on -
Thanks Victoria. I was thinking along these lines, too...that we ought to look at some info about teacher retention. Here is a study I found with a quick Google. I'm sure there are others...
TEACHER RETENTION: WHY DO BEGINNING TEACHERS REMAIN IN THE PROFESSION?
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3673/is_200407/ai_n9421952
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Permalink Reply by Brett on -
I agree there is a lack of respect, but it does go both ways. I am a student who is well behaved and I respect my teachers, but at my district school I was just as disrespected as the teachers were. So were the parents. I think people have to work on overall respect. Avalon has great respect throughout the school. The reason is because we focus on our social aspect of school and value the community we have. We work on making it positive and try and inforce good habits with it. I think the district schools do not always do that.
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Permalink Reply by Carolyn Avaire on
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We also need to revamp our student teaching experiences so that we can move forward with new ideas. For example, if a college tells a student teacher that under no circumstances are they to seek out there own placements and continually misplace a student what will the student learn to bring forward into the future teaching corps? New teachers last about 5 yrs?
If a student teacher is passionate about charters, and struggles to remind the college of this, and would benefit greatly from teachers in the midst of implementing new and innovative ideas, how can inspired new teachers move forward with new practices if the college they attend will not allow this and will not be flexible in the needs of the student teacher? Which in turn are the needs of the community.
This was in reply to Stacy but somehow ended up on this page.
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The reasons why I have second guessed my desire to obtain teaching license at this time are:
-the unprofessionalism I encountered during my student teaching placements from longstanding professionals. As a student developing professional skills this was mind boggling.
-the lack of support for the fact that I was still a student and a parent. Meaning that if I was employed I would have measures in place for family emergencies, when a family emergency or obligation comes up it needs to be dealt with. Colleagues/subs are not present for a student. As a student I still had this covered as a student. As a student teacher I was allowed to miss 3 days which needed to be made up. No problem. But when teachers/ supervisors are not willing to recognize the needs of non-traditional students and become bitter...it creates an unprofessional environment. Three days for a family of three means that we can each only be sick one day and if one is sick for three days, well, we better not get sick! Unlikely.
-the environment of 3rd yr AYP school and the stress the teachers were under...not very inviting.
-the environment during test prep
So essentially, the question I had to ask myself , " why would I put my family and myself through this?" Maybe when my children are grown but at this point they are my priority. As passionate as I am about education I will not sacrifice my own children.
I graduated with a 3.8 GPA in all ed courses. Completed all El Ed required courses and passed my praxis tests. I have experienced a huge variety of classrooms following different philosphies over the past 20 years. I am greatly inspired to bring the education of the future into being. Even more so after what I experienced last year. For now I will wait and explore other avenues of working for change on behalf of students.
I will say this...the students were the best part. My second guessing has nothing to do with their behaviors what so ever.
Also, pay has never been an issue for me either. Although, I think initial pay should be higher, I can't see being a teacher making $100,000 after 25 yrs. I have no desire for this. I also want to be close to my students... meaning where they are at...living in the community where I teach. When people serve in the Peace Corps they live with the people they serve. I see education in the state it is as a service. I understand many would not agree...but imagine a corps of teachers with service,not carreer, in mind.
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Permalink Reply by Michael Atherton on
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Thanks for these. Interesting, the second pdf was produced by a union and they conclude that teachers need more money. What a surprise! ;-) Another thing that's interesting to note is they never mention that the salaries are based on a 9 month year. BTW, if you want to know why the former Secretary of Education called teachers' unions terrorists, watch this video at PBS:
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/education/july-dec07/nclb_08-15.html
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Great article. Page 5, teacher ed programs exactly what I refer to above. Some teacher ed programs need serious updating to keep up with the changes taking place in the "real world" !
Also, the changes taking place can be very intimidating to veteran teachers. While I agree that it is beneficial to have mentorship from experienced teachers, if those veteren teachers are frustrated and overwhelmed with the changes taking place they may not be in the position to inspire or mentor new teachers. In fact they may have a hard time giving up control in the classroom to new teachers with new ideas and worry about be "outshined" by the new teacher and losing control of the classroom.
I will be working with a new teacher this year. One with only three or so years experience and I am more hopeful about what we can accomplish together and what I will be able to learn from her, because, we are both new. The article refers to us new teachers as idealistic and thinking we can change the world... well maybe not the world, but the world of ed, and this idealism is vital for change. It is what dreams are made of and sadly it gets lost in the real world of some veteren teachers.
This idealism is what we are hearing from the students on this site. It is exhilarating. Like the saying goes...we need new blood.
Love that billboard, "Your Alma Matters" It does, it does, it does. As a non trad student with a family I wasn't able to be as discerning as I would have liked to have been in choosing my college. My professors, for the most part, were wonderful but when it comes to teacher ed and placements it was like a factory pumping out teachers. I have a handful of peers greatly dissappointed in their experience. I truly wonder how long they will be in the profession with the tools they had to carry forward...not such a great way to enter the corps of teachers.
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