Students Speak Out: Minnesota
No More Entrance Requirements
I'm curious to see what you all think about this, because we've been discussing it in my English class and the response of the students was overwhelmingly against this. For this year's eighth graders, there will be no more entrance requirements to get into any program in the Minneapolis Public Schools.
Personally, I think this is definitely a good thing. High school is about figuring it out, and you should be able to choose where you want to go, regardless of your middle school grades (which may or may not accurately portray your effort or potential as a student).
However, most IB students (especially this year's freshman class) do not see it this way. I was shocked to hear many students say things like, banishing entrance requirements will "dumb down IB", or our school will become "like North High". It bugs me so much how elitist these kids are!! We've been told all through middle school and the admittance process that IB is the best and we are the smartest kids. And IBers want to keep it that way.
To be honest, I've been having a tough time keeping my grades up and I was an straight-A student in middle school...I can't imagine anyone with lower grades would even want to come to IB! But if they do, more power to 'em, I say.
I want to know what you all think...I felt like such an outsider when we had to write papers about this and I was one of three kids in a class of 33 who stood in support of getting rid of requirements.
I'd also be interested to hear what 8th graders think...I know some have switched to Anwatin (pre-IB) in hopes of bettering their odds of getting into Southwest. It's all very interesting.
Another thing I've been meaning to bring to the forums...I know a bunch of parents who have gone to meetings about the high school transition and were appalled by MPS's disorganization and incompetence in explaining all of this. I know three sets of parents, none of whom know each other, who all said if they didn't already have kids in MPS, they would never send them. Which is really sad.
Personally, I think this is definitely a good thing. High school is about figuring it out, and you should be able to choose where you want to go, regardless of your middle school grades (which may or may not accurately portray your effort or potential as a student).
However, most IB students (especially this year's freshman class) do not see it this way. I was shocked to hear many students say things like, banishing entrance requirements will "dumb down IB", or our school will become "like North High". It bugs me so much how elitist these kids are!! We've been told all through middle school and the admittance process that IB is the best and we are the smartest kids. And IBers want to keep it that way.
To be honest, I've been having a tough time keeping my grades up and I was an straight-A student in middle school...I can't imagine anyone with lower grades would even want to come to IB! But if they do, more power to 'em, I say.
I want to know what you all think...I felt like such an outsider when we had to write papers about this and I was one of three kids in a class of 33 who stood in support of getting rid of requirements.
I'd also be interested to hear what 8th graders think...I know some have switched to Anwatin (pre-IB) in hopes of bettering their odds of getting into Southwest. It's all very interesting.
Another thing I've been meaning to bring to the forums...I know a bunch of parents who have gone to meetings about the high school transition and were appalled by MPS's disorganization and incompetence in explaining all of this. I know three sets of parents, none of whom know each other, who all said if they didn't already have kids in MPS, they would never send them. Which is really sad.
Tags: entrance, high, more, no, requirements, school, transition
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Brett on -
I personally think that getting rid of requirements means lowering standards and the amount of student effort abd understanding of the difficulty the program will be will decrease. My middle school grades were different than high school and I the grades from before really showed whether or not you put any effort into school. I think if you loose the requirements then you will also get a lot less really qualified students and deticated ones who should be on the program and more who are not best for IB for instance.
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Permalink Reply by Annie Wood on -
I see where you're coming from, but I just don't think kids with really low middle school grades will even want to apply. IB is known to be really hard. I figured since middle school was easy for me, and I got A's, high school would be too...not the case! At times, I've questioned whether I should be in IB. Also, I think counselors will try to deter students with not-so-great grades for that reason.
Also, IB is an international program, and Minneapolis is the ONLY place that has ever had entrance requirements...it's not supposed to be an exclusive, "smart kids" school...it's for anyone who wants a challenging, involved education.
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Permalink Reply by Brett on
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I think they might, it may not be that many, but the selection program was developed so that the IB program could work for the students it fits best and filter out those who maybe are not ready yet. I think we would waste a lot more time and resources (like counselors having to discourage those students,) without the selection with students who get inrolled and end up figuring out that it was not a good choice for them, they are taking up the space for those who really should be involved to get people figuring out where they should be, not just where they want to be.
My best friend really felt a sense of accomplishment once she got in. She had worked hard to get into IB, I think the selection proccess helps more students do that. If all you need to do is apply, and hope that you randomly get in, doesn't it take some of the motivation to do good work in middle school so you can get in go away?
I think anyone can have the challenging involved education, but if you were really interested in doing that I think you would be accepted into the program because your grades and teacher reccomendations would show that. If you were not ready to be challenged at that level then you just would not get accepted and you would take a different course that would better fit you.
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Permalink Reply by Kim FB on -
One thing that is surprising to me is that you are using the term "getting in" -- to public high school! Wow! That sounds like a lot of pressure to me. I thought that students didn't worry so much about "getting in" until college!
A personal story. When I started 9th grade (at a private hs) I really, really wanted to be in honors English. I had always been in honors English, but scores on the hs entrance test (yes, for hs) did not qualify me. I appealed; still didn't get in. Appealed again at the end of freshmen year and got in -- and got A's all the way through (even passed the AP test). Anyway, this is all to say that I think you're right that if someone has the will to try it, they should be able to have access to do it (the teachers were FAR better, for example, in the honors courses. Perhaps the exposure to them, their reading lists and curriculum and style, the peers in those courses, etc. made me less bored and a better student?).
And another thing...all through elementary school and middle school I got the worst grades in music. I went to college with a music scholarship. Go figure.
SO you might be able to tell that I am with you on this one.
That being said, I can see why students might be concerned about the level of challenge if "everyone" were to be able to get into IB. But I think you make a good case -- perhaps everyone won't want to get in and do that level of work. And if they do, could schools adjust to add more IB-level work and less of the lesser-demanded courses?
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Permalink Reply by Carolyn Avaire on
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Kim,
Your music experience is fascinating. What happened in the early years? What changed in high school?
Did you have a love for music when you were young or did this emerge later?
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Permalink Reply by Kim FB on
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Always had a major interest in it. Tap danced at my brothers' baptism (so early, early)! Played violin through junior high. Decided not to pursue further in high school because the orchestra was not very good (though it was in the public school I would have gone to). This is interesting to think about re: Annie's question. Because I selected the private school anyhow (my parents offered me the choice) because of the people I believed I would be surrounded with and how that would affect my academic opportunities in the long run. There had been fires in the trash cans during lunch in jr high, for example. So desiring a place where academics were a little more valued was high on my list. This is why I can relate to what students in Annie's class may be thinking. But I wonder if the students are right in thinking it's the students' prior assessed academic level that makes IB great? I think, instead, it could be the desires of the peers to take advantage of what IB offers no matter what the previous level.
As Annie supposes, some kids won't be motivated by IB. What if in 8th grade I decided I wanted to have more opportunities to develop musically. That may have caused me to choose a different school. And I would have taken advantage of what that school offered...
I would LOVE to hear from some of Annie's classmates to find out more about what they fear they will lose.
Anyhow, I took up choir in 10th grade. My scholarship was for vocal performance.
In high school, there were more opportunities to develop my interest in music (like musical theater). BUT I still always resented that this was periphery. I had to stay late for rehearsals, etc. And that was trouble with early morning school, though after a while I got the hang of it. What could have happened if music was central to learning; instead of a "side thing"? Both academically and musically?
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